Ski Brands Why Hate?
Something I’ve encountered since I started snowboarding is the abundance of people that believe ski companies have no place in snowboarding. Whether it’s because they didn’t embrace snowboarding at the start or because they’re part of some huge conglomerate that has an “evil” board of share holders. Evidently people don’t grasp the concept of a company, but that’s another topic entirely.
It’s somewhat amusing with the fact at how big snowboarding is people still bitch about how ski companies are involved in snowboarding. Evidently old grudges don’t die, which is slightly amusing since a lot of ski companies pushed the snowboard companies to up their game. Then there’s the whole amount of companies that are financially backed by them as well.
Salomon pretty much reinvented the snowboard boot. Atomic came out with the Hatchet and crushed the price point park slayer market. That deck opened the eyes to others to make more price conscious boards that weren’t just low end crap. Ride would have toppled if K2 hadn’t bought them out and now those two are making some of the sickest products out there and pushing the envelope. There’s numerous examples of ski companies having their hands in snowboard companies.
Evidently 54% of you guys feel the same as I do and that’s ski companies do belong in snowboarding. Here’s the results from the poll that were relevant to this. I still haven’t figured out why people would pick turtles but sure.
Do ski brands have a place in snowboarding?
Yes
61 (54%)
No
17 (15%)
Maybe
17 (15%)
Now have all ski companies contributed anything to snowboarding? No there’s still some that don’t seem to quite get it but hey that’s their thing. Not every company is going to understand what people want when it comes to snowboarding, since as much as it has become like skiing it’s still different. But is that still a good enough reason for people to remain ignorant? No definitely not.
Classic example of some ones ignorance. A guy in his late 20′s comes into the shop and says he’s looking for a high end twin park board in a 159. Cool I show him something from every company we carried which was like 20 different brands. The next words out of his mouth are, “Fuck ski brands, fuck Burton, tell me more about this Ride DH. I don’t support huge corporations or ski companies.” Hmm guess he missed the memo about K2 owning Ride, so I tell him, “interesting points you make there, FYI Ride is owned by K2 as are a few other brands.” Dude couldn’t deal with it and flipped out some more, then asked me what I ride that’s on the wall. I pointed out about 4 decks that I have and he goes off in a tyraid about how I’m a sell out because I support ski companies and big corporations. Funny thing is he went and bought a Lib Tech TRS, I had to point out as he was leaving that they make skis and are owned by Quiksilver. Some people just don’t get it.
It amuses me even more when I hear reps and industry people bag on ski companies. It’s even funnier when things go south with whomever they’re working for and they jump ship to one of those brands they were hating on. Guess it’s all part of the positionary perception they’re trying to achieve. Seriously if you’re going to hate on something at least have a reason other than who the money is coming from or the fact it’s departmentalized. Some of the best stuff I’ve ever ridden has been from ski companies, hell I’m riding K2 Boots and Bindings right now.
What’s every ones thoughts on this, is there still a reason to hate ski brands, or should they be allowed to the table to utilize their technology?
Popularity: 2% [?]
hmm…didn't you basically hate Ride just a couple of years ago? (before you got hooked up with K2)
I'm the first to admit that I'm a brand snob, but it's not about who the money comes from or if they make skis too.(It's more about unfounded biases I developed in high school that I still cling to for no reason.. haha)
Would snowboarding even exist if skiing weren't around first? And, so long as their heads are in the right place, more money = more R&D = better products and more technological advancements.
Not to say I exclusively ride ski brands either. I ride what I like, and don't care about who's name is stamped on it. K2, Burton, Ride, tirtytwo, etc etc.. if it feels right, I ride it. End of story. (Except Roxy.. that's my brand snobbyness, and yes, I know, they're made by Mervin aka lib and gnu.. whatever. At least I admit my snobbyness is unfounded.. and I wear a Roxy jacket as my non-riding jacket because it was free, so I'm a sellout to myself.)
Hating ski brands is kind of like racism. It doesn't what color you are, what matters is who and what you are. It doesn't matter what brand a board is; does it perform or not. All companies make dogs and stars. Seems like ski companies make more than their share of dogs so buyer beware as always. Let them in; the more the merrier!
There is actually 2 basic variables with brands being owned by ski companies. Does the ski company owns it's own manufacturing(Atomic,Elan,Rossi,etc) or is it produced something like Salomon who does not have a factory. When a ski brand owns a factory, sometimes the goal isn't making a great board as much as it is filling up production…so typically they sell their product much lower than what snowboard brands can do. Atomic(which was noted in the story) of course wanted into the US market and they did this by selling boards for super cheap and losing money, which is very difficult if not suicidal to compete with as a brand. A consumer can win by getting a great board like the Hatchet for super cheap, but the reality is that brands cannot survive selling sintered base boards, carbon at such a low price while having distributors, reps, and shops all taking margin. So, yes ski brands can and are good for snowboarding, but the Elans, Atomics of the world are sometimes hurtful to the other brands when they sell so much out the back door or sell way below market value to distributors/shops. Then again, a lot of factories sell out the back door, I don't blame them since it's brutal market for them as well and the suppliers.
I won't lie a few seasons ago I did hate Ride products. The boots have come a long way and I think they're solid just not for me hence why I use K2's. I'm not a fan of aluminum baseplates and I never will be, but the Contraband and Nitetrain V strap is a great idea, Alpha heel strap solid concept. I own a Concept UL so that much say something about me hating Ride as well. The new DH2 has some sick pop to it and I dig that. When they changed their product lines enough that I thought they were riding better I started liking them more. Still not a fan of the new Machete just doesn't ride the way I'd like.
Oh and for the record K2 doesn't hook me up. I was flowed some product through a rep because I was moving so much through the shop. I'm pretty sure next season I won't be getting anything from them but I will still be buying a Jibpan, Slayblade, Formula's, and when my boots die another pair of them.
I grew up in Alabama and have a strong skate background. I didnt move to Salt lake until my early 20s (1996) so I never had a ski background. I knew coming in with my skate experience I would be snowboarding. There are things ill never understand about the ski culture and thats fine. There are a few things I do understnad however. One its historically been an upper class elitist sport (hell they even hate on the grizzly bearded tele people). Two its not very open to swift change. Snowboarding flew in the face of both of these mindsets so at the beginning there was alot of animosity. However as a new generation of skiers grows up and they are more boarding influenced by their style both tricks and dress there seems to be less tension.
The exact same can be said with companies. Obviously the bigger the company the more conservative you are going to be. Of course there was initial resistance from large ski companies snowboarding was a threat economically but at the same time still too much of a risk to get involved in. If a company such as K2 or Saloman is progressing the industry than they have a place. If they are spending money on R&D, supporting a team, and sponsoring contests and or videos than they are doing their part and welcome to the club. Some are better than others but most do have a place here in snowboarding.
I love the argument that they are only in it for the money. Awesome. I guess such core boarding companies as Rome are non profit is that what you are implying? EVERYONE is in it for the money its what you do with the money when you get it that makes the difference. K2 Atomic Rossi Saloman are all legit in my book.
and thing we should not forget is that those ski companies were making snowboards waaayyyyyyyy before all the "hardcore" scene we have now. K2, Rossignol, Salomon, they were already here 20 years ago, while the founders of Stepchild, Rome, omatic or signal were riding… rossi's boards?
Thus said, I just hate skiing, and freestyle skiing overall. That's said.
Burritos summed up much of my opinion. And I still don't understand the snowboard vs. skier hating – but I never will.
What really matters to me is not who makes the product but rather, what a rider/skier can do with it. If it doesn't help you progress skills, try harder . Then if you must – try something else. We often forget that second step before we try to sell our gear on craigslist.
So many riders (many, my friends) are too fanboy over their board logos. But what do I know, I never get to shred with the pros. ;]
ride what you want, for your own reasons, not what some blogger tells you, or because some online columnist regurgitates tired topics from three seasons ago.
the important thing is that the joeys, gapers, newbs, or whatever they are in your neck of the woods, find the same passion in the sport as we do.
I don't care if that kid rides a Snow Jam. The fact of the matter is as soon as he has the skill, or financial means to upgrade, he's going to. Be it a mega brand, or a hand pressed unit out of a dudes garage. It really doesn't matter.
Hate brands for image or corporate structure, but the fact of the matter is if they all were black top sheets and white bases, half of these BS theories and opinions wouldn't ammount to a hill of beans.
Hating ski brands is stupid and just people trying to be "core." If the company makes solid stuff, why not ride it? As for people hating Burton it's the same thing as with ski companies. Personally, I don't hate Burton or ski companies. What I do hate is people who hate a certain company/ companies because they think it's cool. People are really lame these days.
Good thread. I guess I'm more apt to look at board companies before I look at ski owned board co.'s and the like. I never skied so I don't really know who makes what and what quality and so forth but I do know a bit more about burton, capita, and rome since that's what i ride and the only reason i have those is because i demo as much as I can before I buy. IMHO ALL companies need to release a lot more demos of their boards. I don't give a crap what Travis Rice rides I need to get on that thing before I buy it. That's the bottom line for me.
Now and again I hear grumbling from shop kids and others about corporate this and that. I agree, most of these people have no clue what they're talking about. They just repeat what their friends say. ignorant.
green is the new black, rocker is the new camber, snowboard is the new ski
and people hate burton because they place #1 in good wood's (whatever) under $400 category and reward everybody by bumping the price up to $450
Haha, Avran I'm surprised you didn't make that guy in the shop's head explode in rage and fury.
As far as companies, it's all about who is keeping snowboarding fresh and moving things forward. It can be a fancy technological breakthrough like Never Summer's R.C. Tech or just core values as simple as ZION's P.O.P. program.
In fact, the enemy might be in "our own backyard" per say. How many companies out there claim to be core and all for snowboarding… yet something about them is just terribly, terribly wrong.
Hey, guess what all you Burton haters? Snowboarding probably wouldn't be where it is today without them. So DEAL WITH IT. I know I already had another comment but people who hate Burton probably can't justify why they do, they just do. No, I'm not a Burton rep either.
Someone ride the short bus here? Not seeing any Burton hate roaming around.
regional consumer fickleness-
'your brand' isn't shit around here, 'my brand' sucks out there. the cool kids don't ride 'that' around here.
who cares, NEXT.