Camber Theories In Use

Back in June I wrote a post explaining the various camber theories, whether it was rocker, 0 camber, or any of the other various incarnations out there. Since that time there’s been a lot of requests to talk about which one excels more in which aspect and what not. Here’s my take on which are better suited to what conditions and what type of rider might like them.

First and foremost anything that is anti-camber is going to give you added benefits in powder. That’s a given, you just don’t end up having to fight against the camber to get the nose above the snow. Are certain ones better than others? For me personally I wouldn’t say that one is better than the others, but certain ones are more suited for a certain style of riding.

Something like the K2 Gyrator with its 3-stage rocker is going to be better at backcountry freestyle than boards like the Burton Fish with their S-Rocker. You have one that’s a directional twin and another that’s just directional. Are you going to drop a cliff and throw a 540 better on the Fish or on the Gyrator? Naturally the Gyrator would be the better choice just based on the over all shape of it and how it’s not so directional in shape. Big thing is to ask yourself what you want to get out of the deck, this is where it’s less about which variation of reverse camber it has and more about the actual shape.

For park riding things change up a little bit because almost every company has some various incarnation of anti-camber they’re hyping that is the best at what it does. A lot of it is definitely going to fall on the rider and their style of riding. Some have a loose skate inspired style a la LNP while others are tight and technical like Shaun White. Big thing I tell people is different strokes for different folks, just have to find the one that suits your needs the best.

Any company can take a soft jib deck and throw rocker, reverse camber, 0 camber on it and call it a super jib stick. That realistically takes no effort at all. The vast majority of these decks are utilizing some variation of 3 stage rocker and it’s loose and playful. The others are still just soft jib sticks with one of the other variations. For most people having a deck that’s playful like that makes them happy. In regards to jibbing and doing ground butters all of these are awesome, some might be softer, or looser than others which could suck but most are solid to say the least. Honestly most people would be happy riding something like this and just dorking around on groomers. Hell even in pow it’ll still get better float than a standard cambered deck. Biggest sacrifice though will be pop and stability of course. Some companies have negated the loss of pop by building up the carbon, case in point the Rome Artifact 85 with that carbon triangle, it’s actually stiffer than its regular camber counter part. The other option is going with one of the decks that utilize a micro camber in the tips i.e. the Never Summer Circuit R. That miniature camber will allow you to get the snap you’re looking for and ultimately give a tad bit more stability.

For jumping, half pipe, and all mountain riding that idea of over building to negate the loose feel carries over. Everything from milling the core different to adding more carbon is going to help. Another added component is the less is more school of thought, especially in rockered decks. By minimalizing the rocker height you increase the response when popping. If you think about it is a board with 3mm’s of rocker going to ride different than one with 12mm’s? Of course it is! Rides doing a good idea of utilizing this concept with the Machete and Dh 2 with Lowrize. Less rocker and stiffened up decks give you that pop. When I was talking with Sean Tedore from K2 he told me they were planning on changing the rocker amount in the Jibpan and changing the stiffness to give it that pop every one’s become accustomed to. I agree with him on that, 6mm’s seems to be median in that range where things are ideal for playfulness but not sacrificing pop.

Like I mentioned above having a miniature camber is definitely going to give you added pop as well. Banana was a huge marketing ploy by Mervin, yet most of their riders weren’t riding it, even Travis Rice admits that he wasn’t in an interview. Hmm if it’s so great and wondrous why wasn’t he using it? Because it didn’t give him the pop he wanted, now they’re doing Banana C2 and he seems to be stoked on that. After riding Never Summers R.C. Technology I’d agree that the pop you get out of it is better than most rockered decks, it also gives a bit more stability in the tips. Edge control also gets tweaked a bit more because you can still use that camber to help plow through turns. Now Nitro’s version of this anti-camber on the Sub Pop/ Sub Zero not so much, the placement of the cambered areas is different and that changes the pop you get.

The mix between these two is zero camber and that cam-rocker that some companies are using. Hands down zero camber beats it out, you get the ease of not having to load it, with the benefits of edge distribution and pop. Cam-rocker you’re still having to load and unload it, the rocker only actuates when you have loaded the camber and then it rises up. With zero it’s benefits are always present. Other than powder cam-rocker is just average at best and doesn’t give you as much playfulness as full rocker, zero camber or reverse camber. Zero camber also makes for an easier transition for those guys that are still in love with the feel of camber. It’s that nice middle ground where it’s not a drastic change and still has a lot of familiarity that resembles a traditional cambered deck.

As I mentioned earlier different strokes for different folks. Don’t just assume that one of these is going to be the magic board that solves all your problems and makes you a better rider. That’s dependent on you, but I will say this stuff does make snowboarding a lot more playful and fun. So who can really complain about that?

107 Comments

  1. Anonymous says:

    i really wish making a board reverse camber didn't jack up the price. i dont get why it does basically its just a different mold, correct me if im wrong. and i wish companies would offer more reverse camber decks in wide. being a large footed man can be difficult in the snowboarding world we live in

  2. The Angry Snowboarder says:

    The only reason to jack the price is to off set the cost of the extra carbon fiber being used. But you're right to retool the mold isn't as expensive as most companies make it out.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Hi

    Thanks for the very informative blog. Could you give some examples of good "zero camber" boards. I'm not pleased w/ my skate banana ("zero pop"). Funny enough, the 1st place I heard of zero camber was when I bought my little boys their Burton Choppers this year. I've never owned a Burton. I've owned K2 and Lib Tech boards and am open to anything so long as it works.

  4. neil says:

    Marketing jacks up the price. Why do you think they started pushing reverse camber in the first place? Their own riders aren't even buying into it. :/

  5. The Angry Snowboarder says:

    ^ Maybe for Mervin, but every Never Summer rider is on R.C. Technology, the K2 team is riding either 0 or rockered decks, Nitro team is on 0 camber.

    As far as 0 camber I've been digging the K2 Slayblade and Believer along with Nitro Rook.

  6. Anonymous says:

    i posted the first comment aqnd i was looking at some decks today and you are right.. like you said in the post companies are adding carbon to rocker boards and some have different glass variations as well ( such as the darkstar vs. the parkstar) so it makes some sense the price would be a little higher but some are just redic. and for neil you will see a lot more riding them in this seasons vids, just saying.

  7. neil says:

    True, that was a bit biased towards Mervin and I've only had a chance to try some of the more extreme RC boards out. I haven't hopped on this years stiffer boards or the K2 0-camber take, which I've heard/read better things about.

    I think the advancement of the tech will be a good thing and don't mean to come across as if I'm hating on it or that there isn't a future in it. It's just that the hype is rampant and it's driven by the companies to sell boards. From what I know (not much), a snowboard doesn't cost anywhere near $400 to make. Maybe some of these fancy green materials, but I'd doubt it. Something I do know though, hype sells snowboards and companies exist to make money.

    I'm ok with supporting the snowboard industry but wish they'd be a bit more straight-forward with the tech instead of giving it some fAnCy mArkETing mAgiC leaving us to wonder what the hell we're actually buying. Helpful information has been scarce at best and if you don't demo these boards before you buy them, you may be a sad panda.

    So a big thanks to you TAS, for trying to fill that void with useful information. :)

  8. Anonymous says:

    Hi
    Hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but this is valuable info. to me. More questions: (re camber/zero camber). I had a look at the K2 boards you suggested. Look interesting. Also (and this is unusual and unexpected if not very important) the graphics do not make me want to puke. So, if I'm right, I get the feeling you think zero camber is a better idea than, say the other, subtly different camber w/ anticamber set ups K2 has got going on other models, or than ideas like the signal omni's "wavelength" shape (which sounds great, but since I can't go test it I can't drop cash on what sounds like a great idea, you know?). You do seem to have good thinngs to say (I think) about Never Summer and their RC tech (I'm not even going to ask about Lib's C2 power Banana. Maybe it will work but I don't want to spend 666.00 to find out. I want to know. My 2nd board was a Lib Dark Series and, looking back, apart from being stiff, heavy and a bit long for me it was pretty great – I just had to work pretty hard. Reverse camber and easier riding appealed, so I got the TRS banana (piece of crap in so many ways) and when it cracked I got the skate banana, but I think that easy riding, spinning, etc. I enjoyed on the banana may be in part to blame for my knee surgery this year (also could be I'm 40). Like so many others, I just want to get the best board for me. I should mention I was able to ride my little bro's bataleon distortia (girls version of evil twin). It was way too short for me but I liked it quite a bit. What do you think of them? Thanks

  9. The Angry Snowboarder says:

    Neil I completely agree with you that the information available isn't as good as it could be. I also think that some of the people out their trying to be informative are doing a horrible job at it. There's a lot of miscommunication going on and having multiple buzz words to describe the same type of technology isn't helping either.

    You're also right that a snowboard doesn't cost 400 dollars to make. But even after materials, labor, shipping, marketing, advertising, then the mark up most companies aren't rich by any means.

    I don't think zero camber is necessarily better, but I see where it fits in. I think for halfpipe it honestly makes the most sense out of any option. Rocker has its place but there's a level of moderation that needs to be attained you can't just have your board bend at a 45 degree angle and call it park rocker. That's just too over the top.

    You're also right that I love the way Never Summers R.C. technology rides. I've been on it since the first 10 prototypes with it were made. I love it for my all mountain riding more than anything else because it doesn't sacrifice as much as others.

    I think cam-rocker like Signals wavelength isn't going to be as great as they're hyping it. I have yet to get on it, but the camber is going to negate that playful feeling you get. Plus with the cam-rockers I've ridden yeah you can butter them a little easier but you're still playing with the camber.

    I've owned a Bataleon it was a great concept when it came out, but now it's nothing special because it still has camber to it.

  10. Anonymous says:

    I'm not a believer in flat camber.

    From what I understand, Signal's Wavelength stuff is rockered already before any weight is put on the cambered area.

  11. The Angry Snowboarder says:

    ^ Well that's how Cam-Rocker works, the rocker just actuates more once the weight is put on it.

  12. Anonymous says:

    Thanks again for more great info. One thing: Bataleon's website says that their boards are flat (until you reach the tips). I don't know if they use the term "zero camber". Any thoughts?
    I'm glad to hear your positive review of Never Summer RC. I'm looking at the EVO R. Do you think that board could work as an all mountain/ freestyle board or is it more of a jib board. Do you prefer Never Summer's RC tech to K2's not dissimilar tech? Is there a K2 you'd recommend as an all mountain/freestyle type board, or do you think the Never Summer stuff is better. Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for responding.

  13. The Angry Snowboarder says:

    On the Bataleon site the flat they actually talk about is the base itself where it doesn't bevel up. They're just cambered decks with a tweaked base theory.

    You can ride the Evo anywhere no problems at all. If you're looking at K2 check out either the Jibpan with rocker or the Believer with zero camber.

  14. Anonymous says:

    Thanks again for your advice. That gives me a much better place to start. I keep reading that the Evo R has gotten a lot softer for this year – Is this true, and, if so, is it still rideable everywhere in your opinion? Really, Thanks a lot. I'm done harassing you with these questions.

  15. The Angry Snowboarder says:

    This is the thing people don't realize if they softened it up so drastically it would then over lap the Circuit R in terms of flex, pop, and stability. When you do that it eliminates it as a twin all mountain freestyle deck and just becomes a twin parkcentric deck. The softening up is minimal unless you're pushing 200 plus pounds and trying to ride a deck that's ideally designed for someone 50lbs lighter.

  16. hoon says:

    nice brutha. nice.

  17. Anonymous says:

    Going back to NS's RC tech do you find that there is a "sweet spot" when it comes to binding placement (stance width and angles) vs board length / rider size? Mostly referring to the evo/revolver. Or does it mostly break down to ability and comfort? It seems like boards with mostly all wood cores have that mythical "sweet spot" that allows you to get the most from the deck and I was wondering if that applies to this debate.

  18. The Angry Snowboarder says:

    The sweet spot falls into the mental aspect of snowboarding. Set it up and go.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Hey guys,
    I got caught up in the reverse camber hype last season and bought the T.Rice BTX. I love riding this board in powder, the nose pulls up easy and as it's the 161.5 it gives me a nice long board to surf the white stuff.
    When I'm not on powder though it just doesn't perform how I'd like it to.
    So this season I bought the K2 Parkstar (Zero Camber) and I couldn't be happier. This thing is awesome in the park and on groomers, and it can handle powder well too.
    So now depending on what I'm going to be riding I'm either on Zero or Reverse and it's sweet!
    My previous board was a Burton Custom-X, only replaced it as a rock shark bit the edge on a powder day! I had a lot of love for that board too.
    So in the last couple of seasons I've experienced regular camber, reverse & zero; and all three boards have their good points. A lot of it comes down to what you want to do on the board. Don't buy a banana and expect it to pop through the roof, but expect it to surf the pow pretty sweetly.
    As the author says… different strokes for different folks… and different folks want their board to do different things.
    Peace and Powder be upon you,
    The Happy Boarder.

  20. The Angry Snowboarder says:

    FYI Parkstar is not zero camber it's 3 stage rocker.

  21. [...] Angry Snowboarder’s Camber Theories In Use [...]

  22. Nito says:

    TAS and others,

    I’m a freerider from the ice coast that is looking to do freestyle? In addition my skill level is intermediate, carving the groomers and some steeps, but want to start hitting the park and also do ollies. So I want to create a list of boards to demo out this winter. I’m very interested in the NS SL-R but don’t know anyone who has the board. Burton are easy to demo, so I’m also thinking about the Custom and Easy Living v-rockers. I did demo the Skate nana last year but was not impressed.

    Thanks in advance – Nito

  23. Nito I’d actually look at the Evo R since you want to do more freestyle.

    Here’s a list of solid park decks I’d recommend for you.
    NS Evo R
    K2 Jibpan
    K2 Parkstar
    Nitro Rook
    Salomon Grip
    Unity Rocker
    Ride Dh 2 Lowrize
    Ride Machete

  24. Nito says:

    Thanks TAS.

    Based on your recommendation, it is better to learn freestyle on a park board because the SL-R is for a more advanced freestyle rider. In other words, a freerider could ride the SL-R but it would hinder their learning freestyle.

    Thanks again for both the list and advice – Nito.

  25. Alex says:

    Hey – overall i think your break down is pretty spot on, however i have to disagree with you about the Cam Rock – I think that Nideckers/Yes Camrock is the best of all the rocker designs i have tried.

    I have a Gyrator 62 for Pow days, which i love, and for the past 2 seasons my main stick has been a Skate Banana 59, or Danny Kass BTX 57. I have put a couple of weeks on a NS Evo R, and tried most of whats out there – at the end of last season I spent 2 months switching between a Nidecker Megalight and the Yes 56.5.

    The rocker is not initiated by pressing out the camber on the Nidecker Camrock. I agree with you on the fact that several other Camber rocker designs do do this, such as Palmers FLF design. The rocker is always present,and the camber between the bindings is minimal, in fact to the naked eye it looks almost like a 0 camber board, but there is enough to give it some real snap, both for turns, and ollying – it also makes it super stable, and i actually found it to be a lot better in Pow than any of my Banana’s, the Megalight is nearly up there with the Gyrator, only a lot better on the hard stuff – in fact if you want to spend a day laying down fast carves on coudroy it is the perfect stick, whilst not having the harshness of a lot of other similar boards.

    Now Nidecker are never a brand i would have considered buying, but after riding these boards i was sold. I understand what you are saying, but if you look up close at a Yes/Nidecker you will see that a significant amount of rocker is present, and that you do not have to load it up in anyway to bring the rocker out. I would say it is quite similar to a Turbo Dream in terms of rocker

    I know you rode the Addict, which is very similar to the YES boards, and had mixed views on it, but i know many people who have ridden the Camrock designs and loved them, finding it a perfect balance between camber and rocker, for someone who wants an all mountain board. Also Rossignol Amptek and Nideckers Camrock are one and the same, which itself was the idea of Stéphane Radiguet, a legendary board/ski designer here in Europe, and i have heard nothing but good things about the Rossi Angus and Mais.

    Bit of a rant, but i feel you you have have dismissed it a bit too quickly – however i do agree with you that the K2 0 camber is a great design.

  26. Honestly the rider is more important than the gear. I learned park on a stiff ass directional plank with 0 flex. Obviously a soft park deck is going to make things better especially if just learning on small stuff. The SL-R is really designed for someone that charges the whole mountain and dabbles in the park while the Evo-R is more for the guy that makes the mountain his park or rides the park.

  27. Different strokes for different folks. I based everything I wrote about on how they rode. I noticed the second I weighted the camrocker it would actuate the nose and tail up. I plan on giving it another go this winter to test it out again, but as of right now I’m personally not sold on it.

  28. Alex says:

    Yeah -i have to say you are spot on with the different strokes – for me the Camrock hits the spot, but for others it might not br there cup of tea. I just think its a good option, like the 0 camber, for someone who doesnt wants rocker, but likes a board that can handle going hard and fast too.

  29. Joe says:

    What are your thoughts on Ride’s Lowerise rocker? It got a zero rocker profile up to the inserts, with a minimal rocker profile after that… I think it only comes a cm off the ground. I bought a DH2, haven’t really had the chance to try it out… starting to regret the purchase… (I know it sounds horrible, to buy a snowboard without trying it… I was in a situation where I had to use store credit/employee discount or lose out, and at this peticular shop it seemed like the best choice for what they had) If they’re was a Never Summer there… probably would have got that. Have you gotten the chance to ride a 2010 DH2?

  30. colter says:

    I saw your reviews on the nitro sub pop but the gullwing concept intrigues me, I am wondering if you have had a chance to look at or flex/experience in any capacity the nitro team gullwing. For some reason the idea of zero camber in the rook makes me nervous as to it breaking down and losing pop over time or even just not performing highly right off the bat. Also have you seen the agent 1985? the rocker setup is listed as being more like the NS Rc or Nitro gullwing tech. Seems interesting I really appreciate all the information and insight you provide, on a side note what are your views on boot size to waist width? i feel like 255 waist is about the perfect size for bigger footed riders, these companies that go from a 248 in their normal model to a 264 in the same length wide model kind of make me uneasy as well, i prefer not to ride uber wide boards when the opportunity presents itself

  31. I haven’t been on the Nitro Team Gullwing yet, probably get on it in November. But it’s a reverse cambered version of the team so it’s going to be softer than the traditional team. Zero camber done right has to be over built to retain pop. I haven’t seen the new 85 agent personally but it’s on the list to ride.

    As far as big footed riders it’s all preference, I’ve been riding 26 waisted boards with a size 10 and been perfectly fine.

  32. colter says:

    Yeah thanks, just for the sake of my own benefit i went around to board shops for like 5 hours yesterday and flexed boards and checked em out all up and down and everything, i have to say the NS boards are dope, the rook seemed to have almost a looser flex than the swindle which surprised me and i didnt get to see the 85 agent but from flexing what they had in there i feel like an agent 85 with a 159 length would be the sickest board ever. still cant get onboard with the mervin stuff and burton looks decent but just kind of crazy priced and lame graphics on the hero for this year.

  33. mikey says:

    after trying a TON of rocker/rc decks ive come to the conclusion that im more stoked on the base variation concepts. it seemed that with each rocker deck there were positives and negatives. ive since tried extr-eco, con-dom, various bataleons and even a nitro T0. of these i have my own personal favorite (like the centered bowed surface decks more than the tip/tail design of bataleon) but in general i think its the best of both worlds. loose/catch free feel that everyone who favors rocker craves combined with the pop and stability that camber provides. after switching back to a flat based deck it just felt wrong…

  34. jelly says:

    i have not tried any v rockers but have been out with mates playing around on them and have not been out down by what they can do on a rocker! i have a burt 7 (not twin) i have had for years …loved it! i’ve used it as a all mountain/ free style, it out runs every board ive come across ! maybe because i keep it well waxed ? i was looking at the ns S L R because i would like to jib around a bit free’er but dont want to get sketchy at speed … help pleassseeeee

  35. Codi says:

    Angry,
    Your reviews have helped out a lot. Im in a toss up of what board to get this season. I ride in Tahoe (to give you an idea of the kind of snow ill be dealing with). I have two questions, one is sizing: Im 5’11” 185 pounds and dont know what size board to choose between a 156 and 159. The reason it is between those two sizes is because i dont know what board to choose between Skate Banana and NS Revolver. Yes i ride wide cause of my size 12 foot. I want a board that is a little more on the park side of the mountain but I will not go a day without bombing down the diamonds, groomers, and pow. I want to ride park this season but I want something that can keep my nose above the pow, hold steady at speed, and carve like a champ. Ya it sound like i want “the perfect board” but between the skate banana and revolver, which one do you think will get me the most of what I want? So my questions: Skate banana of Revolver? AND What size between 156 and 159? I want a board that’ll last me a while too and cant take the all mountain beating and park beating. Please let me know!!! I need to make this decision!

    Note: My board last year was a Bataleon goliath so I dont mind the squirly tail, it was a really fun board.

  36. Codi says:

    ***I want a board that CAN take the all mountain beating and park beating***

  37. Codi hands down you want to go with the Revolver. 3 year warranty, micro camber in the tips to give you pop, reversed between the feet so you get that play and ability to make it float in the pow. The banana is a novelty deck in my opinion after about 20 days the pop just isn’t there in that deck and it goes even softer. I rode a 59 revolver a lot and used it for everything from cliff drops to bluebird park days. I’d go with the 159 and with it being reverse camber you’ll still find it playful enough to get our jib on.

  38. Codi says:

    Thanks for the quick response and definately helpful input! Im thinkin I might want to go with a 56 though…are there any cons to going with the 56 that ill find myself dealing with? The bataleon I had was a 57 and really enjoyed it. I know they all say with rocker you can downsize, but does your opinion differ? thanks

  39. The downsizing thing is pretty much a myth perpetrated by Mervin MFG. With NS boards run them true to size, it’s your choice man go for the 56 if you want something more playful in the park and for buttering than stable when cruising or good in deep pow.

  40. Codi says:

    Is the Revolver and Evo the only true twin boards that NS makes?

  41. Circuit R is twin as well.

  42. cdr says:

    capita makes a sick line of “reverse” camber…they are flat from binding to binding with a 3mm rise. Rode horrorscope last year, and riding the Ultrafear this year. Couldnt be more stoked on these reverse camber borads.

  43. Ryan says:

    I recently have purchased a 2010 salomon sanchez reverse camber. Has anyone tried this out? I live in a area where we are not able to DEMO boards. I also can’t find anything on it in regards to what type SPECIFIC camber it has. All it has for info is “moustache rocker”, is this zero camber?

    What I’m mostly getting at is…I ride, alot. Mostly park. Mostly rails/boxes. (i have a street board) Will this board be at all good while cruising groomers? I don’t want to get another board just for bombing around…I’ll keep it regardless, because it’s a 151 and I will always need a park board, I just like being able to cruise groomers and a slight amount of pow all in one day with the same board. I’m really Just looking for some info/opinions and would really appreciate it !

  44. Ryan I found the Salvatore Sanchez to be a really soft jib stick. Here’s my review of it http://www.angrysnowboarder.com/?p=4253

  45. Bear says:

    Hi Angry,

    Another question for trying to get a better understanding of the Pros and Cons for two base technologies: Rocker-Camber (like N.V) and Camber-Rocker (like Nidecker).

    Ok both try to get best of both world (camber and reverse camber) but clearly they are different
    R.C has better pop/snap thanks to the camber after the bindings but does that mean it is not as good for powder?
    and Camrock would be better for powder, presses but does it mean less pop, less control?
    Which one would be better for jibs? pipe? landing big air?

    Or am I getting everything wrong and a zero camber-rocker on the tips is the way to go?

    Thanks for spreading the knowledge.

  46. Bear that mini camber in the tips gives NS boards control and stability while adding pop to ollies. Cam Rocker is something skis have done for a while when you weight the board it actuates the rocker so it rises up. Which would be OK in pow, but the NS boards are fine in pow I’ve been riding them for 2 plus years now in pow and had no problems, anything that isn’t traditional camber will be solid in pow. The NS one is going to be better all the way around out of the two.

  47. friscochris says:

    What about the Legacy for Codi? I think if he wants a 156 it would be a solid board for what he wanted to do. Its what I went with anyways. I am 5’10 175 lbs. I wanted something that would bomb the mountain, agile through the trees, kill the pow, freestyle when ever where ever and work in the park. My reason for going with the 156 Legacy and not the 159 (need some agility and play factor). Otherwise go with the 159 Revolver. My 2 cents… could be off but I thought it was a solid choice for what I wanted which is along the lines of what Codi wants (shoot almost the same size to in height/weight)

  48. fatscot says:

    Angry,

    Firstly mate, good job on the reviews. It is helpful to get a person’s view on both the the pros and cons of a board rather than just the usual positive noise that makes every board sound good, and choosing a board impossible. Therefore, I thought your critical opinion on my plans for getting a new board would be really helpful:

    I am 6′ 1 and about 195 pounds with 30 + weeks riding and I am looking for a Freestyle orientated all mountain board that will:
    1. Slay powder
    2. Help me Improve my freestyle and buttering
    3. Is not a noodle with my weight and will allow me to continue to ride tree lines and cruise the pistes.

    I am hoping that within all of this rocker tech is a solutions. I am currently looking at the following boards:
    Salomon Grip (too soft for my weight?)
    K2 Believer (Good in powder?)
    Ride DH2 (freestyle progression credtials, i.e. do I need to be a pro to butter and olie this?)

    Do non-camber boards get stiffer/less chattery as they get longer? Is that a good way of overcoming their noodle nature?

    Thanks

    fatty

  49. Fatty McFatterson what you’re ideally looking for is an all mountain freestyle deck that you can charge with and still have fun on a park day. The Grip is a great option for this I’d also look at the K2 Slayblade over the Believer or even the Turbo Dream, Never Summer SL, Unity Rocker, Nitro Rook, and I’m probably forgetting a few options in there as well. The DH 2 could be a contender you’ll be fine with the low rise for buttering it, it shouldn’t be too much of a board for you.

    A boards flex/chatter level is more relative to what’s actually inside it than the length. Even though that does in certain cases play a little into it.

  50. fatty says:

    Angry,

    I see where you are going and I like it, but I have a worry about not having the leg strength to get the most out of a Slayblade or DH2. Simply due to getting a bit older and so the 2 Ws, work and women, becoming an annoying consumer of my time I just don’t see me getting enough time on on the snow in the future to get the leg strength; Plus with no industry standards on flex I can’t compare those boards, especially Unity and Never Summer.

    Could you rank them in order of stiffness and highlight the noodles and the planks?

    Fatty McFatterthantheFatone

  51. Fat Tony or Fatone or Tone the Fat one. Softest to Stiffest DH 2, Never Summer, and a tie between the Slayblade and Unity.

  52. fatty says:

    Angry,

    where does the Salomon Grip sit?

    Fatty Powers

  53. Somewhere between the DH2 and SL R.

  54. fatty says:

    Thanks mate for all of the info, it has been amazingly helpful!

    I hope you have another brilliant season.

    F

  55. darkside says:

    mr angry
    i’m 5’9, 140lb with about 10wks exp and i’m looking to upgrade. i’m all mountain freeride
    with a penchant for butter. i’m riding an old nitro naturals which is pretty stiff and was thinking about the rome agent 1985 as i’m looking to improve my freestyle. what dya reckon?
    cheers
    the darkside

  56. I haven’t been on the agent 85 yet so I can’t comment on how that’ll ride. But I think anything with rocker would be a step in the right direction for what you’re looking to do.

  57. iceRider says:

    The Minnesota snow is more like MN ice. I’m replacing a Burton Custom. It’s great at holding an edge on the ice, but a bummer at butters and park. I want a K2 Slayblade for carving the ice and still enjoying the halfpipe. At 5’11” 160 pounds will a 159 hold the edge while carving? Will the Slayblade offer more pop if it’s longer or shorter?
    Thx,
    iceRider

  58. Hope you understand the Slayblade is going to not be so great at Buttering or Jibbing but great off jumps and pipe. Edge hold is more the rider than the deck. I rode the 56 and was railing turns perfectly fine.

  59. thatguy says:

    Angry,
    I need some help. i ride all mountain 5’11 190lbs
    i am set on the ns slr just not sure what length 158 or 161 can you help me decide
    also i love to butter is that gonna be a problem on the slr
    thanx,
    thatguy

  60. Get the 58 you’ll be able to butter it like you want and still ride it all over.

  61. thatguy says:

    thanks for the quick response. can you tell me why you would choose the 158 over the 161 just for peace of mind and do you think i will have any problems in pow if i go shorter.
    keep up the good work
    thanks again
    that guy

  62. Cause I was once your weight and the 61 just wasn’t as much fun around the mountain as the 58.

  63. fhg25 says:

    I’m looking at a DC pbj 158w for my park board, 1 am 6’4 175 and wear a size 12 thirtytwo ultralight boot. I want to use it for rails and butters mostly but hit the kickers from time to time. I love to free ride as well and bomb the black diamonds. I am currently on a k2 podium 164w and love it but its big and heavy no doubt. So to get back to topic, what do you think about the DC pbj as far as size and what I’m looking for?
    Thanks!
    fg

  64. What does this question even have to do with how camber theories work? Also DC boards suck dick.

  65. fhg25 says:

    ouch, ok, and what it has to do with is in that board the DC PBJ it has what they call camber to flat technology. I was interested in your opinion on their technology, I mean they built the mountain lab, they do tons of testing. My question was very similar to a few others on this topic, just concerning a different board then what you suggested. If I had my way I would be rocking a NS revolver, but I dont, so I asked about a lower priced board, I mean I am looking entry level here and god forbid I ask someone a simple question because in everything they posted before led people to believe that they were informed. Informed you may be but also a dick, angry, lol whatever. Maybe the DC boards do suck. I will keep doing my own research. Thanks for your whack ass input, sorry I asked.
    fg

  66. Oh look some fucking little kid gets all butt hurt I called them out. FYI the PBJ is cambered it is nothing more than that. The BDR is their rockered deck. DC boards are crap they’re a rushed construction you want something to look at go look at the right sidewall of the deck guarantee it looks perfect then look at the left side and it’s probably got a huge space in between the sidewall and the spacer or the spacer was pressed while overlapping the sidewall. Their boards blow apart easily enough. But hey heaven forbid the angry snowboarder gives an angry answer and doesn’t fucking sugar coat it with fucking rainbows and unicorns. Sack the fuck up kid you want a hand holder you came to the wrong guy.

  67. fhg25 says:

    lol, hell yea, first off not but hurt and I sac’d up when I wrote ya back. Not sure where ya called me out either, but ok. The good news here is that I was smart enuf to get the info from you that I wanted with the help of a little word play, ya know brutal honesty along with why ya feel that way! Sweet! I’ll take a look at what ya mentioned, thanks for that info! Unicorns handholding, rainbows and sugar coating,,, hmmmm somebody needs a hug!!!!

  68. fhg25 says:

    hey man, spot on with the blem issue on the DC, looked at the whole rack, like 11 boards and only found one without some sort of build flaw that wasnt brutally obvious. Expecially when I compared it to how well built my K2 seems to be. Just going to keep rocking the the K2 for the rest of the year and try to coin up for the revolver. Thanks for the info, love your site and your brutal reviews, lol hope our witty banter didnt leave ya salty, just trying to have some fun with ya!!

  69. Sweet89 says:

    “Also DC boards suck dick.” read the whole thread and that made me laugh out loud. anyhow im just curious why your take on Mervin mfg is so negative and i feel like i am in trouble for buying a lib now if what you say is true and based on this thread you don’t seem like your bullshitting us, I’m 5’9 and i weigh 120, and i bought a lib trs btx. i thought going with rocker camber would be beneficial since it takes decent weight to balance out cambered decks, at least that what i noticed with my old board i would get bucked off an edge if the run got bumpy or shitty groomed action and go into a barrel roll down the hill. I have noticed so far I’ve been able to pop pretty decent with it, with it being a stiffer board. And the magnetraction has held up awesome for me through groomed shit and ice. I already plan on buying another board next year and am thinking of Smokin’ and there D.I.R.T rocker technology paired with magnetraction. Im wondering what your take on that is? Sorry for the inquisition, just seems like your a well knowledgeable person in the topics of snowboard guruism.

  70. DId you get the TRS with C2 or just straight Banana? Personally I just think Mervin boards are more designed to be a hype machine than a functional board. There’s things they have that work and there’s decks of theirs that aren’t bad. I wasn’t sold on the D.I.R.T rocker when I rode it, but Smokins version of MTX is way better I will say that.

  71. transplant says:

    Hey man, I just stumbled on this site – nice, lot’s of good information. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on C2 BTX (Dark Series specifically) – you’ve alluded to it a few times but I can’t find a comprehensive review, unless my search skills suck badly. I had an opportunity to buy some Mervin product at very good prices, and I went with the DS C2 BTX as it seemed to best fit my riding profile (big mountain freeriding, powder, crud etc – very little park & jib.) Cost aside, I would probably have gone with a NS Titan or Premier, but the price on the Lib was too good to pass up. Basically just looking for some opinions until I actually get to ride the thing, having a newborn at home has limited my days this season…

  72. I haven’t been on them yet and don’t know if I’ll bother cause Mervin is a bitch to get on.

  73. Dubcac says:

    All I’ve ever ridden are traditional cambered boards. I’m looking for a new board soon. Like someone above, I ride Tahoe a lot as it’s close to where I live. I’m an all mountain rider…mainly steep groomers, going fast, messing around with friends, hitting pow when I’m lucky enough to get it, sometimes plowing through chop…not much park, but do go on occasion. 5’6″, 150lbs…probably 152-154 range…what are some ideas? I’ve never ridden a reverse camber/etc board, and I’m worried that it will feel too loose at speed.

  74. Dubcac if you’re worried about the loose feel go with either a zero camber deck or something that incorporates camber in the design like what Never Summer uses. Boards I’d check out would be the Salomon Answer, Nitro Team Gullwing, Never Summer SL, K2 Believer or Slayblade, or if you did go rocker maybe check out the K2 Slackcountry, but I’d put that way down on the list.

  75. [...] The Angry Snowboarder Blog Archive Camber Theories In Use [...]

  76. ep924 says:

    What do you think about the K2 Zero? I understand its extemely light and wanted to know if that translates into any sacrifices in other performance metrics?

  77. Jono says:

    Hey I just have a fews questions. How do zero camber boards handle in the powder? Do they handle any better than camber boards and is it possible to downsize because of this?

    I rode a rossi angus and thought it sucked! It did have nice flex n pop, but it was just slow to initiate turns on the hard pack. Rode it in pow and didnt notice any difference to normal camber boards.

  78. The Angus just sucks I can’t figure out why it won so many accolades. Zero camber is better in pow than regular camber cause you don’t have to fight to keep the nose up.

  79. Light and very stiff is the way to describe it that thing is a hard charging beast.

  80. Robert says:

    Honestly, I hate reverse camber boards. unless your riding powder i would avoid them. The ride is terribly loose. Their is a reason there is camber on a board. Don’t believe all the marketing bullshit folks. Get out there and try them out if you can.

  81. So Robert I guess you rode 1 reverse camber deck probably that fruit bowl shit Mervin made and suddenly they’re all crap right? Camber is going the way of the dinosaur.

  82. fhg25 says:

    so, I ended up with a ride machete 157w, great deal from ebay made the choice easy after my local shop couldnt get it for me and I just didnt have the coin for the NS i really wanted. Anyway, I couldnt be happier. This is one sic board. It has plenty of pop for my level of riding and was a blast in the park. Thanks for the 411 on the board!

  83. djrflooring says:

    It seams that you a certain that camber only boards are dead, so what should a free-ride guy that rides fast groomers and tight steep woods never run in the park and try not to ever leave the ground to do. Looking into getting new board like the nidecker ultralight and the burton t7 but not rocker at all and suggestions for and old boarder. I would love to demo new boards but not much around her on the ice coast.

  84. Zero camber would probably be more up your alley or maybe look into something with camber and rocker or something like Never Summers R.C. technology.

  85. Alex says:

    Really useful article here – I’m an adv freerider (currently bomb down the hills on a T6) who is moving more and more to the park. I’m def looking for an all mountain stick, but I’m torn between zero camber boards (like Ride’s Proride, K2 Flatline) or Never Summer’s RC.

    The designs are clearly different, but they seem to both be aiming to satisfy something between a normal camber and a rockered board. Are there any differences in the ride feel between the two worth discussing? I have never seen NS boards on demo, so it’s pretty hard to get a hold of one… any help would be much appreciated.

  86. Alex says:

    I should note that the boards that currently pique my interest are Ride Machete, Never Summer SL (the 2011 one that is more freestyle oriented?) and K2 Slayblade.

  87. Alex Prorize is actually a 3 stage rocker not 0 camber. Every one of those options rides different and has different pro’s and cons.

  88. Mark says:

    Id like to give my 2 cents to tell people that Reverse Camber is good technology, but it isnt the solution for all conditions and riding. For example, Spring-condition night riding on a reverse camber board is scary as hell above 10 miles an hour. For that matter, bumpy runs suck unless you crawl your way down. However, RC is good for beginners and park/powder riders. For the most part, the design of your camber isnt going to make or break the way you ride (stiffness and length has a greater effect imo) It’s not the camber of the board, but the ability of the rider. It is very common for riders to be as much psychologically influenced by their board as well as its function, for example, youll probably be braver on jibs if you are riding a jibstick even if you suck at them. For a beginner rider, a board is a board in their minds.

    Now i ask, wouldnt a 0 cambered board grab the the snow and essentially go slower than any other because it causes the board to become one giant contact point, and in the end, causing more friction?

  89. Well Mark how come most of the more experienced riders I know are riding reverse and charging lines through bumped out trees? Different styles of reverse do make the difference. 0 camber does give more contact when on edge but flat basing it’s not digging the contact points down into the snow.

  90. Colin says:

    How does the Never Summer Circuit-R do on jumps compared to a K2 WWW rocker? I’m currently riding the WWW and want a board that I can press well, but also hit jumps better and stomp my landings on spins. Im looking at the 151 and im 140lbs.

  91. Scruff Franks says:

    To Pop or not to pop.
    I’ve been on a few rev camber boards and they will never replace the pop from a regular camber board. For me the basis of 99% of my tricks is the “ollie”.
    Butters are played out, stop doing them. Rev Camber ruined that trick.
    Why do boardercross riders still ride reg camber?
    Thanks angry, just my 2 cents

  92. Colin says:

    Because boardercross riders are making sharp turns and going as fast as possible down a course with 4 other riders. Also boardercross riders ride with binding angles between 30-45 on the front foot and 15-30 on the back foot while riding narrow extreme directional boards. Just because they do doesnt mean you should.

  93. Boardercross the event for people that can’t actually do anything in the park. I rode camber 2 days ago it sucked steering a board at the tip and tail is played out you should steer under foot.

  94. Colin says:

    ^^Agreed. Im on a snowboard team that does SBX, pipe and slopestyle and it’s so fucking crazy trying to ride that SBX course with a WWW I nearly shit my pants everytime. Its a good thing I don’t care about SBX anyways.

  95. [...] TBT and B.S. Technology. But all in all you can find better info on alternate camber explained, how it works, and the various different base technologies. What’s even funnier is they didn’t even [...]

  96. Jae says:

    I’m pretty convinced that I should pick up the K2 Believer after reading tons of reviews as well as the articles on this site. I’m 22, throw 540’s and front flips, but want to start stomping 7’s and learn more inverts. I’m 5’7″ 145 lbs. If I’m looking to spin, should I grab a 151 or a 154? I’m a pretty advanced wakeboarder and I ride a shorter (132) LF Shane board.

  97. Jae I’d probably go 51 based on your size.

  98. andreea says:

    Hello, I read some of your reviews and you really caught my attention. I really really need some help in choosing a better snowboard for myself.

    I started snowboarding with all the don’t-s: on my husbands board (rossignol 162cm) and his size 9 boots, and the next season I bought some gear for myself, including a boy’s crazy creek 145 cm that is a very low-cost broomstick-stiff rock heavy board for me, which i used for the next 2 seasons. My 3 seasons “experience” adds in total of 3 weeks of snowboarding. I ride in goofy stance while doing turns and i’ve tried some ollies too, and I also do switch riding . After 2 seasons missed because i was pregnant, I want to get back on track on a good board that would help me boost my skil level.

    I am 5’4″ (163 cm), 103 lbs (46.5 kg) and i wear size 6 US (37 EU). I need a light board, maybe even shorter board (hopefully i’m not making a mistake here), that is all mountain (i don’t do rails..yet) and most important, twin or almost twin (for switching). I board mostly in ski resorts, so it’s mainly groomers and hard pack.

    I really don’t know which snowboard to choose (anywhere around $500), with all the technology. I was looking at so many that I’m confused (mainly gnu, k2, rome). I’m opened to any sugestion.

    Thank you very much for your time.

  99. Andreea you’re tiny so you’ll want something in the low 140’s for size. I’d recommend checking out something that’s sort of middle of the road from any company in regards to where your level of riding is at and that has either rocker or reverse camber.

  100. ashwinearl says:

    Hi,
    This is a wonderful resource. Thanks for putting this information together. One thing I’m unsure of is how a more flexible regular camber board fits into this continuum. For example, I’m 5’5″, 130lbs size 8 boot, 42 year old male, mid-atlantic (VA/WV), regular runs only, no park/pipe, fluid, less aggressive style. I’m currently on a 2007 Rome Anthem 146/Rome Targa Bindings, and have this nagging feeling that it’s just too much board for me. Turn initiation, especially when I’m tired or in chop feels tough. (*Not sure why but the Rome 146 minimum stance width is wider than their longer boards, so I also haven’t been able to get my stance width as narrow as I’d like to try.)

    I’m torn between going with a more flexible-regular camber board better tuned to my weight/ less aggressive style, or going with a zero camber board. I’ve got little opportunity to demo or try new boards out.

    Thanks again for creating such valuable content for the rest of us.

  101. [...] Snowboarder’s Camber Theories In UseTakes the discussion one step further, commenting on how these new boards actually hold up on the [...]

  102. Jacob says:

    Yo men,
    I have to tell you something. Zero camber is nothing more than tradition. I’m riding it for two seasons for now and I’m perfectly amazed with it. I pushes you to leave this whole craze about rockers, shapes and technologies.

    From practical point of view, you can feel that the board is agressive and just waits for your cemmands. On rails it behaves perfect. It sticks yo the rail and you can feel stable and redy to combine. In the park it lets you doing your job when not giving you help as well as doesn’t interupt. Yeah, you may feel kind of hard spirit (not like lazy and soft reversed shapes). Powder can give you a huge kick, so you may be exhausted after. Anyway, the adrenaline that comes to you makes you feel happy about what you’ve just done. Even if you are fagged out.

  103. [...] – The House BoardshopSnowboard Review: 10-11 Lib Tech Attack Banana EC2 – Shayboarder.comThe Angry Snowboarder #header { background: [...]

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